corner weights for dirt oval racing

This keeps the ride heights as close to ideal as possible. They're made by Proform, and are quite a bit less expensive than the ones made by Intercomp, but they got good reviews. Cross-weight is also called wedge: If the percentage is over 50 percent, the car has wedge; if below 50 percent, the car has reverse wedge. turn and ended up with a perfect 50.0% cross weight. I'm off by 0.1% (see numbers on left side of the spreadsheet). Splash = 2-3 gallons, 1/2 can = 5-6 gallons, 1 can = 11-12 gallons, 1 1/2 cans = 17-18 gallons, 2 cans = full tank. Astrut with its innards removed? If you have 50/50 weight distribution to begin with the note that crossweighting will do the exact same thing. In our example, move the LR and RR corners down by 0.4375-inch. Muscle Car. Corner weights-cross weights - TenTenths Motorsport Forum Bite = Left Rear - Right Rear and a positive value means the weights and percentages and generates target wheel weights to achieve a 50% You can lower the cross weight to help on tacky tracks. To make sure your spring changes don't upset your ride heights or crossweight percent, you need to mark your wheel spacing to the fenders. Note your ride heights and It's stuff closer to 60/40 or 40/60 where you need to stray from crossweighting. I Always record the cross-weights and ride heights for reference at the race track in case changes are needed. is especially true if you don't have adjustable spring perches. To increase rear weight, move weight as far back as possible. March 2017 - F1 suspension rules, independent rear suspension for dirt oval. of its weight on the Left Front and Right Rear tires, and 50% on the Right Front For ovals we want a Oval right swapped). Bearings, like sealed roller bearings,solid bushings, or spherical joints. PDF iRacing Set-up Guide If most of the important turns on your close to where I wanted it. shifted by more than 1 pound after rolling the car on the scales. Other things to take into consideration are track conditions and weather changes. The rear weight percentage is found in a similar manner: Add the LR and the RR weight together and divide the sum by the total weight. At the time Honda was still favoring their home market I reckon. lowered onto the scales the tires will need to spread out to unbind the Disconnect the shocks, when possible, and the anti-roll bars. not to push it off the scales, to unload the suspension (as the car is You need a nice, flat and level surface for the scales. I run generally 34F/30R for the street and usually (again depending on the day) drop the fronts to around 30~ and the rears to 26 or 28. For asphalt, on the flatter tracks, corner entry is enhanced when running a softer right front spring. The angles are another way to set the suspension for the desired ride height and cross-weight percentage. If the driver lifts early but still has a fairly good amount of roll speed into the corner, there probably isn't much brake being used. used linoleum tiles to shim two of my scales to get them all level. One of the most important aspects of racing is having a good handling balance. Corner_Balance.zip, Excel Corner Balance Spreadsheet Screen Capture. Adjust the cross weight for more extreme conditions or different circumstances. Right Rear weight: < Enter your corner weights in pounds or kilos and click 'Calculate'. Shock Angle-measure the angle of the shock installed and at ride height. The third thing I look for to make at the track dirt race car handling decisions is where the driver lifts the gas going into the corner, and the overall entry speed. Hot Rod. "two linoleum tiles & salt" technique to allow the tires to slide on the scales To do this, we add five rounds of pre-load to the RF. When you lower the panhard bar the rear roll center drops. Bounce the car at each corner to free the suspension from any bind, then roll the car onto the scales. Right Front tires. Check your tire pressure and bump it up to the hot pressure You can also put two linoleum tiles with salt between them on spring perch so I left my jacks in place between lifts and only put two lug nuts Corner_Balance.zip Excel spreadsheet. rear. On an average dirt track you will need to change tread and stagger at least once a night, due to changing conditions. The front is usually the lowest point on the car and most sanctions maintain a minimum ride height rule. values shown below are totally fictional. This makes the cornering force balanced from left to right and offers the best performance overall. Ah, OK, thanks for the clarification. Thanks; what you say makes sense, of course, but repeatability is always going to difficult unless you can get rid of most of the bind, right? I lowered the right front spring perch 1 full turn (equates to It's positive Bite and positive Wedge Delta. I have a 96 civic with a d16/manual. If you decide to have a tuning shop complete the corner weighting and assuming you are not driving the car to the shop, disconnect the rear sway bar yourself to save the shop time and you money. 2 1/2 turns. Custom iRacing Setups and Paints for dirt oval and asphalt oval cars. You can drop the front end slightly or raise the rear end for more aggressive turn-in. RC Dirt Oval Car Setup & Tuning Guide [5 Key Steps] TVW - (RF + LF + LR) = 603. This can make maneuvering in traffic difficult, even dangerous. height and corner balance new springs. %Right Weight = For this exercise, we will just be changing the pre-load on the springs to redistribute the loads, or weights on the four corners. that turns equally well in both directions. Now, look into details about the matter. be appropriate such as making small adjustments to all 4 wheels--add preload to Toe inn a 1/4 inch. Dirt or asphalt? Same with go-karts with solid rear axles, they'll lift. you don't use Microsoft Excel. Bite = Left Rear - Right Rear and a positive value means the But if you corner and the inside wheel slows to 150rpm, the outside wheel will spin at 250rpm. Track Side Quick Reference - FMI Knowledge Base - FMI Racing Here is what you do. On a road course, the variety of corners require a wider range of performance; the setup needs to yield good speed through a fast kink and a slow hairpin. You can make this adjustment in several ways: If you don't want to change the ride height of the car then then leave them connected. track are left turns then having more weight on the Right Front and Left Rear If you want to lower the ride height then retract both RF and You can While several different setup parameters could have caused this situation, a likely cause is excessivecross-weight. This is but one method and I encourage everyone to ask around and find a method that works for your type of car, this one may not be the most efficient. At least for road racing. Weight Training: Everything You Need to Know About Race Car Weight Now that the car has the correct ride heights and weight distribution for your setup, you need to make sure those don't change at the track. scales are connected properly--you can really screw up your suspension settings so the suspension can settle and unbind. I commented on this to the youtubevideo on TIG welding, where they put their C5 Vette on scales and had a contest to guess the weight correctly, so I apologize for the duplicate posts. Check your tire pressure and bump it up to the hot pressure For street cars it certainly can be. I installed Dirt Track Chassis Set-up At The Rear For Cornering - Auto-Ware Then there is what I do for FWD stuff That is forget the rear weights entirely, and just balance the fronts to be equal. "weight jacking," or "scaling," involves adjusting the spring perches of a car I've had my cars corner balanced a lot, but never really looked into the science of it. These are your current calculated weights: Total Weight = Front Weight = % Left Weight = % Right Weight = % Rear Weight = % Cross Weight = 50% is optimal Bite = Bite should be positive for oval racing Wedge = % Wedge Delta should be positive for oval racing Intercomp 102030 5X5 Hub-Mounted Corner Weight Scale. If your car has coil over adjustable shocks you should consider Our current setup is as follows - 270 lbs Car & Driver Cross Weight = 48% Rear Weight = 61% Left Side Weight = 51% LF = 56 lbs RF = 48 lbs LR = 82 lbs RR = 83 lbs I overshot by a little so I raised the left rear spring perch by 1/2 Setting Up Your Traxxas Slash | Traxxas They kept saying that it would go anywhere on the track and anywhere they pointed it. I've spent an hour this afternoon trying to do corner weights "on the cheap" using our IKEA kitchen scale (cost - 15.99 a few years ago) and three wooden blocks cut to the same height as the scale (38mm). Adding more rebound to the car will make the car more stable on rougher tracks. For our example we have LF 3.625, RF 4.75, LR 4.625, RR 5.75. These tell us all we need to know about the setup relative to the weight distribution. When you adjust your coil overs %, Bite = intentionally favor a turn direction. Or do you just mean an old, worn-out strut? This was my first adjustment: Four turns of positive coil Strive for repeatable and take the measurement as a data point, instead of an absolute. of the scale to take a reading. track are left turns then having more weight on the Right Front and Left Rear In my situation, I have a lift, and I'd like to simply drop my car onto the scales, but it seems like that's the worst option as far as removing friction and bind. Cross Weight Calculator | Eldridge Racing | Micro, MiniSprint Parts and . So LF/LR = RF/RR is what you shoot for. If you shocks are working normally they are not worth worrying about. Recheck the ride heights and adjust to fine tune, making changes to the front and rear at the same time. W. William18 New member. after this adjustment we still need to add 39lbs to the Left Front and 4m.net - The Most Opinionated Racing Message Board In The Universe Don't just blindly cross weight it thinking it's the "right" way. Adjusting the corner weights is how we establish the crossweight percent, or what is often referred to as the amount of bite, left rear weight, or wedge. Rolling the car onto the scales from a small ramp that's the same thickness as the scales seems like a better option, but does it truly remove all the bind? 3. The only way to change static weight is to physically move weight or ballast in the car. We have 4.1875 front and 5.1875 rear. in left hand turns than in right turns. We should now be at, or near, the desired crossweight percent. 9. Once the corner balance is complete put someone in Grassroots Motorsports Understanding Corner Weights. Battery: 2 cell lipo max Search for: Brake pedal is soft, spongy and/or long before the car is run: Air in the system - bleed brakes. Additionally, it is much more difficult to change rear percentage much, since rear weight is mostly a design function. To favor right turns, put more weight on the Record each spring rate. 8 Read the ride heights as they exist. ride heights after every change. Multiply the wheel load of 685 times the motion ratio squared, 1.3611 times the shock angle cosine squared of 1.1056 and we get 1,030.8 pounds of spring preload. With an oval track car turning to the left, weight will transfer from the inside to the outside. It's one reason why racing pushrod suspensions tend to employ geometry with minimal shock/spring movement,requiring ultra-high spring rates and very high damping force shocks. To maintain the ride heights, we also must reduce weight or preload at the LF and RR springs. How To Be Fast With Front-Wheel Drive: An Expert Explains - Jalopnik - can make your car dive like a dump truck or a block of wood on ice. A trucking company scale meant to weigh 80,000lbs may not be accurate enough for a 3000lb car. Useful fabrication tips for just about any project, A crash course in 3D printing | Making Stuff: Part 2, How to make the move to an aftermarket ECU, 10 Must-Have Tools for a Scratch-Built Car, Fitting tires and wheels when an off-the-shelf option isnt listed. Setup Tips for Asphalt Oval Racing Currently, dirt car racing involves a left-hand weight measurement of 53.5-55, along with a wedge between 75-125 pounds. There are several ways race teams adjust corner weight. It would just automatically settle. 2. To properly corner weight the car, it is necessary to add weight to the drivers seat which is approximately equal to the weight of the driver (or have the driver sit in the car). bite, a negative value means the Right Rear is favored. These weights are in ready to race form (including driver on board). We also change the rear to correct the side-to-side rake by turning the RR adjuster up (to lower the corner) by 2.5 turns and the LR adjuster down (to raise that corner) by 2.5 turns. I put the tiles on top of the scales. On a road course, the cross-weight percentage should be very close to 50 percent, within a half-degree either way, to keep the handling balance similar in a right-hand turn compared to a left-hand turn. This allows a slightly lower rear stance, which provides a good weight transfer entering a corner. I gave up on running adjustable end links on It will let you predict and understand the effects that various modifications have on handling, performance and lap times. I usually mark an even inch and write that inch number on the tape. I highly recommend using a laser level to confirm the 4 scales are level to one Step 1: Setup And Tuning The Tires Most regular RC cars use rubber tires. oval racing world and is simply another word for Cross Weight. Get the rear percentage as close to the manufacturer's specs as possible. The salt acts as tiny ball bearings and will allow the tires to I mainly run the 3/8. right swapped). on my garage floor for future reference. Matt Higgins Slash Setup / Tips | Welcome to Scale RC Racer PDF UNDERSTANDING CHASSIS ADJUSTMENTS - Longacre Racing I have now added the ratios so I can visually see what's happening. R. racing junky Member. Some engines are used in two different classes with the only change being exhaust system. I can see binding throwing off each corners weight but the sum should be the same. Free Download Chapter listings from. In other words, to make this method work, wouldn't you really have to drive the car around, preferably going over a few pretty serious bumps, before driving onto the ramps? Road racers can take a page out of the oval racing book and Go in hard, let off and let the drag brake pivot the car, and get right back on the throttle. racers add "wedge" by adjusting the right rear spring perch--they There's Nothing In Racing Simpler-or Harder-Than Driving a Sprint Car Would be interesting to see how close to ideal I got it though, given how well it handles already. if you have any of the scales connected improperly (i.e. As with the table, the corresponding diagonal corner of the vehicle gets more of the car's weight. stiff springs on your coil overs. 3) Reverse stagger: The opposite of stagger when your left side tires are . Remember that there are several ways you can maintain ride heights at the track, with loaded spring length measurements, chassis to lower control arm or chassis to rear axle tube measurement are some of those. Please post on the appropriate 4m forum. racers discovered they could insert an actual wedge into the left rear McMaster-Carr adjustable end links I use 2x6 wood planks as ramps to drive the car onto Don't be in a hurry to set ride When dealing with advanced suspension tuning, some people may adjust the corner weights in a manner to impact the way the car handles based on the tracks layout. 1 Establish the corner weights you think you need for your car. Roll Center Explained - FMI Knowledge Base - FMI Racing If you want to raise the rear of the car then extend the RR the front ramps then jack up the rear and lower it onto the rear scales. It was a good car. Check static weight before working on cross-weight. So, we are not reinventing the wheel here, just refining the process. It is important that you complete the corner weighting process before doing an alignment. When Wedge is balanced at Wheel Offset Changes - Dirt Track Supply I will say that if I'm starting on a fresh setup, or the car has been lowered, or I find myself making massive spring perch changes, then I will loosen all of the suspension bolts so that the bushings can relax and find their new happy place. CG Height Calculator, Cross Weight % = Kart WHEEL BALANCE - www.KartPartsDepot.com The tiles & salt seemed to help because the weight never Corner Weight Calculator This is used to calculate the corner weight and Wedge. tank of gas, and no driver or passenger: Now here's the same stock S2000 with a 215lb driver in the seat: I was really surprised to see how far off the stock S2000 was How To Corner Weight Your Car - Suspension Secrets Ok sounds good. So we multiply the difference, or 4.2 percent, by 1.12 and we get 4.7 rounds of right side change to the spring pre-load, or 43/4 rounds. By lengthening or shortening a leg, it increases or decreases weight on the other legs. split the adjustment between all four wheels--extend the LF and RR 1 1/4 turns To keep things clear I call this added weight Wedge Delta To calculate cross-weight percentage, add the RF weight to the LR weight and divide the sum by the total weight of the car. That is why it gets tighter. Find the difference from the desired average ride heights. tires. I primarily just making sure it meets class mininum weight, but I may mess with the balance if its off by much, but I dont think it is. and without me in the driver seat and yup, the theory is right--the cross weight Delta is equal to (Right 4 Things You Should Never Do In A Front-Wheel Drive Car I borrowed some scales to weigh my Terceltomorrow. I vary mine alot depending on conditions, so should I sayset them where I would at the beginning of an average day for autoX? 5.00 front 8.00 back aren't too big unless you can get by with smaller and not lose traction. I had the same question. My big stumbling block on this subject is how to get accurate readings by removing all the friction/bind from the tires, sway bars, bushings, etc. Shock binding is not caused by the fluid (which is only a factor withfluid movement through orifices/valves), but from the seals, which possess both static and dynamic friction. It varies with weight removal, added. 13. line above each scale and placed a ruler on the top This means the driver should be in the car, all fluids topped up, and the fuel load should be such that the car makes your minimum weight rule at the designated time-usually after a race. The overall effect is much like having no shock in the equation. Drag Racing. Add about 20% and slowly increase until your car turns when you let off the throttle in the middle of the corner without rolling out of the throttle. The fact about this concept is when you put a softer right rear bar in, the car rolls more to the right rear but it is actually transferring less weight. Disconnect and adjust later. So, ride heights in the front are more critical for maintaining camber angles. Corner weight system - R/C Tech Forums to get them exactly level. difficult to position all 4 scales so you can just drive up on all of them at works well. Right Rear = you run on the track. That is equal to 7/8 turn of the adjuster. Make sure the floor is perfectly level; use shims under the scale pads if needed. The vanilla neon setup would be SDK suspension (stock ACR, look at neon.org and figure out what you have) with 3.5 deg front camber, 1 to 1.5 rear, zero to 1/8" in toe front and rear. Keeping track of Bite and Measure control arm angles after each change. about 1/8" of wheel movement) to reduce the weight on the right front and left As for setting the left side and right side equal, I understandthe reason why it might be best, but hard for me to picture how to adjust it. looking forward to getting it back! It's a lot of For that level of caring, I wouldn't think too much about it. You can change ride heights later on, but remember that your front moment center geometry will change and your rear geometry will also change, including link angles and pinion and third link angles, as well as rear alignment in some cases. Or am I missing something? Commodore's Garage #19 - Crossweight - iRacing.com Road racers can take a page out of the oval racing book and Picture the following: Your car is really fast in right-hand turns, but understeers in left turns. All rights reserved. The first spreadsheet below is what I started with. traction or bite in left turns. Since each side at each end will usually have different rate springs, the amount we change the spring height adjusters will differ side to side. Are they adjustable? Examine a modern push/pull rod suspension, particularly if it uses a crank link to transformthe Calculator, I used these scales to weigh the car: Then just leave them attached. All of these measurements are widened by the to measure your new springs and put the longest spring in the left front--this If you think you need to make crossweight changes, remember the amount of change per adjuster number, in our case it was 7/8 turns per percent of crossweight at the right sides (left sides again are times the multiplier), and make even percent changes, such as a half percent or whole percent. does not change when a driver is added. section). I It is a critical set-up tool. 2023 Motorsport Marketing. are favoring the left rear tire for better acceleration out of left , Left Rear = The process is so basic to the setup of the car. If you lower the ride height at a given corner, that corner will lose weight as will the diagonally opposite corner. I've read all the info before, in various places, but it's good to have a refresher. You've tried springs, shocks, different bars, neutralizing the anti-roll bar, and nothing seems to work. Corner weighting can be a complicated process for you to complete without someone who is experienced helping you. A perfectly corner balanced car will handle the same when turning left and right, and will maximize the tire contact area on all four corners. Excessive front toe in will make a car turn into a corner quicker, & may create a loose condition. Can do to just left sidesor right sides, or to all 4. Adjusting the sway bar is time consuming and questionable unless it is really stiff. Both of these items will impact the cross weight of the car, and therefore they are important in the corner weighting process. Once the corner Comet Kart Sales - Karting 101 - Getting Started in Kart Racing It changed the wheel weights by 10 pounds at each wheel: I finally went too far when I took two turns off the Right Front (went Struts and trailing arms generally arent great in this case as they have a lot of inherent bind. Example: RF = 643, LR = 751, so, (643 + 751) 2,800 = 0.498, or 49.8 percent. You should also complete this process with approximately the amount of gas with which you will be racing. pad capacity. In April 2013 I corner balanced the S for the first time in Minimizing the hysteresis is good, but it also minimizes the shock/spring contribution to effective 'at the wheel' unprung weight (mass). I would imagine that disconnecting the shocks is only applicable to setups where the shock and spring are separate, like a lot of solid axle cars, or Mk2 Supras in my experience. Here is the method to correct the corner weights and set the left rear bite or cross weight. Forum Actions: Forum Statistics: Threads: 167; Posts: 1,367; Last Post: . tiles) on the left front and 1 on the left rear to level the scales. (corner weights) instead of moving shims above / below spindle? Using dead strut inserts could be an option for cars with strut suspension. Before putting your car on the scales you need to power up Do these percentages apply for front wheel drive cars? Cross Weight or Wedge. We also take five rounds times the multiplier for the front of 1.25 5 = 6.25 rounds out of the LF. Left Front and Right Rear but you'll have to test to find out what works best. For example, if you are racing the Briggs Light class at 305 pounds, your corner weights should be: LF = 68 pounds RF = 68 pounds Let's explore some ways to do this in an orderly and sensible way. These are only average measurements, and they will differ depending on the particular model of car that you have and the tires it is using. No, not as in the law, but in being legal in tech. "If your car is really tight or really loose during hot laps, you have to take a look at the things that are going to make the biggest difference. How would you makesomething like that? Right Front = Yep, old struts that are drained of fluid and have little to no resistance. Wedge Delta can also be thought of 7. very close to ideal. If it slows to 100rpm, the outside wheel will spin at 300rpm. You need to follow distinct directions to set up your RC for a dirt oval. that as a result the coil springs must bequite beefy and stout, 600 lb/in or more. Tuning with anti-dive probably won't be . Changing the ride height at any corner will change the cross-weight percentage. If you had a car with a fully rod-ended out suspension that frictionless and frictionless tires you wouldn't need to roll the car around or bounce it or anything. Oval When that time arrives, you walk across the racing surface, into the dirt oval's imperfectly defined center, and meet your instructor. Right now I have (IIRC) 350 lb front and 200 lb rear springs (koni sport, eibach pro line, ST anti sway bars) . You should read the spring preload amount. Check stagger at each tire, even if using radials. That seem like a lot. Front + Left Rear) - (Left Front + Right Rear) and tells us how much TVW CWP FWP or, 2,800 0.52 0.51 = 685B. over This will pitch the vehicle's. Chassis FAQ | Hyper Racing Here are some points to remember when weighing your race car: How to renovate an old mill | Making stuff: Part 6, Tech tips | Understanding fender rolling, downsizing tires, wheel spacers and what makes a race wheel, How to build a splitter for only $100 | Against the wind: Part 3. as Left Rear Bite + Right Front Bite. In any case, only make one spring change at a time and re-establish the ride height at that corner, then change the other spring(s). Once you get the car up on the scales you'll Once you have installed your coil-over suspension, mount the rims with the tires you will be racing with, and complete all other items that could impact the vehicles weight and placement of that weight. much Wedge Delta and make the handling worse. Some of the most popular engine packages are the Yamaha KT100S, Parilla Leopard, Honda CR125, Briggs L0206, Honda Clone, TaG (Touch and Go) and many more. Cross weighting is crap for road courses and only applies to turning one direction OR if the car is about 50/50 F/R weight to begin with. Road racers are To find LF weight: Do this by making equal changes to the adjusters on each side. It's critical that you set ride height in the same place each and every time you do it. knew I needed to put the car on the scales. Once you get the car up on the scales you'll you run on the track. LR 175, RR 350 - 350 175 = 2.00 multiplier for the rear. That's all total speculation though. Bite and Wedge Delta are I tried the Take the total weight of the car in the configuration you decide on, with driver or without, and to find the corners, do the following: TVW = Total Vehicle Weight = 2,800, LSP = left side. Do not copy these ride heights; they are only used as an example. Iretighten them after I've made all my adjustments. renting/borrowing/buying some scales and corner balancing your car. turns. I needed 3 linoleum tiles (0.045" thick If a setup sheet read as "30 pounds of bite", there would be 30 pounds more weight on the left-rear than the right-rear.

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