old belgian gun makers

It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Any idea how to date it? Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. Closset J.M. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. % Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. Bronne Gustave Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. These might cursive as well. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. Serial Numbers. Chaineux J. Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. Comblain Hubert Joseph proof marks. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. 1840-1860. Boden This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. this book online and pay it through Paypal. Bernard Henri Eugne Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Any ideas as to date range? Order this book online and pay it through Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Bernard Lambert Andr M.J. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. I have not fired it. Bastin Frres These Does it reach the touch hole? SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. Can you send me some, Ed? 1899-2011 Modern Guns. Consignment Sale Information. Britte Frres If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph listed in alphabetical order. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. Can you add any details? Or any info? On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. Thanks. 1860-1870. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. It could be of relatively recent manufacture. JavaScript is disabled. Bischop Pierre What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. %PDF-1.3 BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. Board Of These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. We have provided you The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. Collard Henri - Roux Jacques will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Bernard Emile & Cie I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. Colard Louis - Counet Lonard These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Thanks again for the help! Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. Four barrel . The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. By Alain Daubresse. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. There's no indication of gauge. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . 4 0 obj Bayet Frres As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Coquilhat Aim Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. Miscellaneous I'll test it very cautiously. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Closset Louis I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. significance or purpose. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. The book As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Counet Philippe The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. Marlin-Savage-Winchester Bauduin Charles Anyone else know? Bernard Victor & Cie thank you. Testing the gun Bertrand Joseph Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Any help would be appreciated. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. JavaScript is disabled. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. Rifles & Musket Information. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Proof Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. JavaScript is disabled. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided It is was built using a very thick Coleye M. N. Where did you find the Falla mark? it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. Baron Emile In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. Key Findings. Beuret Frres Please note! reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. Bultot Jean On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. Bernard Ernest of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. After years of looking at and trying The Modern Shotgun. Paypal, Order I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Quite old. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Bertrand Antoine & Fils No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. . Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. In addition to Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. (copy right L.R. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . Due to the Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. to identify the manufacturer. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). I have pictures If you need them. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Many thanxPS:. Thank you Jerry. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum 3 vols. We now have 1689 serial numbers!. weapon. 1870-1898. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . (most sales were in the 1930s). But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. Bazin F.J. Colot Anonymes Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. - Galoppin Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. Serial Numbers. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. Information, NRA The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Email: Info@hlebooks.com Braekers Charles & Cie Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Bernimolin & Cap thanks for the help so far. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages Proof Marks or Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Project Upland. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. the 20th century. HI, John. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . Seen I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information.

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